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JOKER
Apr 7, 2019 6:40:59 GMT -5
Post by Paladin on Apr 7, 2019 6:40:59 GMT -5
so this is a thing...
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JOKER
Apr 7, 2019 9:02:44 GMT -5
Post by Matrix Dragon on Apr 7, 2019 9:02:44 GMT -5
... Meh. Even if it wasn't the Joker, a character I can't give the slightest damn about, it's another 'oh noes, what could make this kind and wonderful person into a monster' story that's just going to encourage another wave of shithead copycats.
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JOKER
Apr 7, 2019 14:58:52 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Mako Crab on Apr 7, 2019 14:58:52 GMT -5
I like a good origin story, but the Joker IMO works better when we know less about him. Still, I didn’t mind the origin they gave Jack’s Joker in Burton’s Batman. This could be okay too. Maybe.
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JOKER
Apr 7, 2019 16:27:56 GMT -5
Post by SporkBot on Apr 7, 2019 16:27:56 GMT -5
I think "Jack Napier" works because all we know is that he's an enforcer for a crime boss, and was common thug when he killed the Waynes. Very little insight or analysis beyond the profile Bruce obtains; we got a name and an attitude, for the most part.
Here, it's clearly going to be kind like if they got more in-depth with the flashbacks in "The Killing Joke". We'll be seeing more down-on-his-luck citizen than we well Clown Prince of Crime. It won't be "one bad day", but a series of events over weeks, months or a couple years. By the looks of it, his break down into Batman's most prolific nemesis won't be chemical bath or a single, ambiguous traumatizing event (The Dark Knight), but a constant barrage of assault and bad breaks that he can eventually take no more. Maybe there'll be an underlying theme of man's inhumanity to man (I mean...look at it! I'd be surprised if they didn't go there).
Now, trailers aren't everything...though sometimes they try to be...and by the end, this could end up as either a definitive origin separate from the DCEU, or a take-it-or-leave-it tale spun by a present day Joker telling this to a shrink. Heck, if they'd played their cards differently with this whole shared universe, they could've ended this with Joker telling a totally made up origin to Harley Quinn, which would be what convinces her to break him out and join him in his criminal lifestyle. Then either in the same film or a later one (probably the same, since DC's "seeding" has been sketchy), have someone else mention J told them a totally different origin.
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JOKER
Apr 8, 2019 10:51:55 GMT -5
Post by Gojitron on Apr 8, 2019 10:51:55 GMT -5
After Wonder Woman, Aquaman ans SHAZAM!, I'm giving DC/WB the benefit of the doubt until I see something definitive that tells me this sucks. Looks like they're setting it up to be like an Elseworlds story with Thomas Wayne's character being some kind of Trump parallel rather than an altruistic physician.
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Post by triumshockwave on Apr 9, 2019 12:39:03 GMT -5
I'm of the opinion that part of what makes Joker terrifying is that there is no reason for him. He's not tragic, there was no triggering event, any origin he puts forward is probably bullshit. He's just chaos and violence personified.
However, as long as this isn't the foundation for Joker for the foreseeable future in some kind of cinematic universe, I'm fine with it. Take it as an examination of a man's descent into madness.
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JOKER
Apr 10, 2019 7:48:39 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Mako Crab on Apr 10, 2019 7:48:39 GMT -5
Looks like they're setting it up to be like an Elseworlds story with Thomas Wayne's character being some kind of Trump parallel rather than an altruistic physician. That really irritates me. I hate it when they change everything about a character like that to make their one story work. It’s like that old tagline, “Forget Everything You Thought You Knew About So-And-So!” Why? Will it wreck the story if I’m aware that So-and-So is being written completely out of character and important details are being changed? And also, I just hate this belief that seems to permeate Hollywood movies that there is no such thing as altruistic characters. Or that those kinds of characters are boring, so they have to change them to bring them down a peg. I'm of the opinion that part of what makes Joker terrifying is that there is no reason for him. He's not tragic, there was no triggering event, any origin he puts forward is probably bullshit. He's just chaos and violence personified. However, as long as this isn't the foundation for Joker for the foreseeable future in some kind of cinematic universe, I'm fine with it. Take it as an examination of a man's descent into madness. [ People naturally assume there has to be a reason behind why a criminal does the things they do. I think the hardest thing for people (and writers) to wrap their heads around is that sometimes there is no reason. If a person is a psychopathic sociopath, they don’t necessarily need a triggering event.
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Post by triumshockwave on Apr 10, 2019 18:56:30 GMT -5
That's why the Jack Napier origin doesn't bother me. He didn't become "Joker" until his dip in the chemical vat, but he was already a homicidal sociopath. He guns down the Waynes for a few bucks, then puts on a big grin and says "See you around, kid". The "origin" just explains the look, not why he's a monster.
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JOKER
Apr 10, 2019 19:11:03 GMT -5
Post by SporkBot on Apr 10, 2019 19:11:03 GMT -5
That really irritates me. I hate it when they change everything about a character like that to make their one story work. It’s like that old tagline, “Forget Everything You Thought You Knew About So-And-So!” Why? Will it wreck the story if I’m aware that So-and-So is being written completely out of character and important details are being changed? And also, I just hate this belief that seems to permeate Hollywood movies that there is no such thing as altruistic characters. Or that those kinds of characters are boring, so they have to change them to bring them down a peg. People naturally assume there has to be a reason behind why a criminal does the things they do. I think the hardest thing for people (and writers) to wrap their heads around is that sometimes there is no reason. If a person is a psychopathic sociopath, they don’t necessarily need a triggering event. A) I think there's a part of some people that don't like altruism because they, themselves, aren't altruistic, and they don't like the idea of someone being "above them" morally. Even if that someone doesn't make a big deal about it, the idea that someone is "better", doing the right thing only to do the right thing, makes them feel bad because they may not do the same. So we get people who might do some nice things, but only because of a guilty conscience or secretly did some terrible things to get where they are. Being screwed up makes them "realistic" and "relatable". I really hope they don't intend to make Thomas Wayne a Trumpling. Of all the people to do that to, "alternate universe" or not, why Batman's Dad? They already made him this badass killer in one universe...Then again, there's always my theory about this whole movie being a story Joker makes up. B) Yeah, I agree that a singular reason may not be necessary, but maybe they don't want to make him "evil for evil's sake" like so many antagonists in 80's action cartoons. That, and it wouldn't justify a two hour movie if he just went to the dark side randomly.
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