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Post by triumshockwave on Feb 16, 2022 23:46:27 GMT -5
A while ago I came across and downloaded a complete set of Micron Legends fansubs. I just now started watching them and... I don't hate this. When Armada came out, I was in art school, so I'd often miss episodes. On top of that, the famously unfinished animation and rushed, slapdash script were pretty distracting. I wound up just giving up on the series, and never actually saw most of the second half myself. I had an easier time with Energon and Cybertron because there were contemporaneous fansubs of the Japanese versions that I could just watch whenever I wanted, but Armada was still a blind spot. Watching the Japanese version obviously looks better, but not amazing. I generally thought the early years of digitally produced anime looked like shit, and Micron Legend wasn't exactly high end even for the time, but it's watchable. The janky digital scaling is the only thing that really yanks me out of the episode when they do it. The Japanese dialogue is without the many bizarre errors and 80's-NES-game level weird translations, but it also contains 100% less Gary Chalk and David Kaye which is a downside. I also have all the Japanese names in my head now, and I don't remember the English names anymore I can't remember what the music in Armada sounded like, or even the main theme. The BGM in Micron Legend might be the same as in Armada? It's fine, either way. The opening and ending theme songs by Psychic Lover are fuckin bangers though. They did the theme song for DekaRanger, which I still find myself singing now and then. 2000's was a great time for anime theme songs even if it was a terrible time for anime... animation. Only on episode 12 so far, but I want to watch to the end just to close that gap. Anybody else ever revisit this series? I want to drag out all my old MiniCons and set them up with the WFC Micromasters now.
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Post by Matrix Dragon on Feb 16, 2022 23:50:56 GMT -5
I've pulled out episodes lately, actually. Youtube keeps recommending them to me, what with the 20th anniversary and all. While there are problems in the first half, the second half of the show, is perhaps some of the best transformers media, for character work, overarching plot, and moving past the Autobot-Decepticon War to a far bigger threat.
I still have a grudge against Energon for wasting what it was given to build on.
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Post by triumshockwave on Feb 17, 2022 14:27:01 GMT -5
I do remember a lot of you really liking it, especially toward the end, then being pissed about Energon squandering it. Of course I was baffled because I hadn't seen the end.
And god damn, it has been 20 years hasn't it?
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iacon45
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Post by iacon45 on Feb 17, 2022 17:12:52 GMT -5
I remember watching the entire run of the english dub of Armada. I had a love/hate relationship with it. Somethings I did love like the later episodes and I actually like how they had the balls to try something different and make Starscream something more than just the backstabbing Decepticon we all knew from G1. The things I really hated though was the constant naming errors (almost every Mini-Con was Leader-1), the stories would sometimes flip and flop without warning (Wheeljack's allegiance in the latter episodes), and how half assed low quality some of the episodes were on the English broadcast. I think the episode was Link Up but I rememeber someone posted a side by side of how crappy the English scenes where and then they showed the more complete animation used in the Japanese broadcasts. I doubt there would be much demand for this (or if Hasbro/Takara would care enough) but I would not be against them taking the Japanese broadcast episodes and putting the English dub track over it and if possible have the English VA actors come back in and correct some of the Leader-1 and other script issues. I still have a grudge against Energon for wasting what it was given to build on. Energon will always be on the bottom of my list just for that. I even hold Beast Machines in a higher regard (I don't hate BM but just saying). Not only did I hate it ignoring alot of what was set up in Armada but also what Energon set up itself in the early episodes. I will always be disappointed how well they set up Demolishor as a pretty good character and then crap on him after his "upgrade".
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Post by triumshockwave on Feb 17, 2022 19:26:37 GMT -5
I would not be against them taking the Japanese broadcast episodes and putting the English dub track over it and if possible have the English VA actors come back in and correct some of the Leader-1 and other script issues. I was kind of wondering if any fan had ever tried that. It might be super easy. What would make it tough would be if they aren't edited exactly the same way, which would cause the audio to go out of sync. Or something like how they actually slightly sped up the footage in Ronin Warriors to avoid having to make cuts for time, so the English and Japanese audio don't line up.
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iacon45
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Post by iacon45 on Feb 17, 2022 19:32:35 GMT -5
I would not be against them taking the Japanese broadcast episodes and putting the English dub track over it and if possible have the English VA actors come back in and correct some of the Leader-1 and other script issues. I was kind of wondering if any fan had ever tried that. It might be super easy. What would make it tough would be if they aren't edited exactly the same way, which would cause the audio to go out of sync. Or something like how they actually slightly sped up the footage in Ronin Warriors to avoid having to make cuts for time, so the English and Japanese audio don't line up. Good points. Also there is a question if the new or reanimated scenes might affect the timing as well or the flow of the English script.
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Post by machsabre on Feb 17, 2022 22:39:42 GMT -5
I actually DID go back and watch the entire Unicron Trilogy not long ago. Early on in the pandemic to be exact. And like you I found myself enjoying it. And it wasn't Micron Legend, but Armada. And I still liked it. It had it's flaws and it certainly could be better in some parts... But I legit liked it and I see why a new generation of fans really latched onto that show.
Energon felt like the post-movie G1 season. There was something REALLY interesting there and you were intrigued with what they had going on... But UNLIKE Season 3-4 of G1 Transformers, they didn't know how to handle it. There was good concepts there... But no one took those ideas and turned it into a story worth a damn. It's like they had 20 episodes of a series... Stretched out to 50.
And Cybertron is just fine. I felt that way then and still do.
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Post by Matrix Dragon on Feb 17, 2022 23:00:04 GMT -5
I do remember a lot of you really liking it, especially toward the end, then being pissed about Energon squandering it. Of course I was baffled because I hadn't seen the end. Yup, the 'Transformers Pokemon' vibe from the first few episodes had been completely abandoned, as we had Thrust and Sideways scheming, Starscream broken down to nothing and trying to survive only to end up growing as a person, Hot Shot dealing with a leadership role and his history with Wheeljack, all leading up to a finale where Megatron and Optimus duke it out one last time, from Unicrons core all the way to the surface, as Prime is forced to face the fact that he honestly does enjoy combat and is a bit blookthirsty, ending with him as the leader of all transformers and the war over, only to wonder if he really deserves the role. Mini-cons went from 'tiny bots that can't talk' to 'Unicron Plot that turned on him thanks to free will.' Hell, Unicrons portrayal in this is possibly the only time besides Transformers Prime where the sheer size of him is truly addressed as the stuff of nightmares. It takes him entire episodes to transform! And then, Energon. Which, honestly, started off with some good bits. The Decepticons are working alongside the Autobots and Mini-cons. They're a public presence on Earth, with even diplomatic relations and Alexis from the previous season as the UN Ambassador to Cybertron. Scorponok is using solely drone armies at first, having no other sentient bots on his side. Hell, half the reason he uses the Decepticon symbol is to lure bitter Decepticons that can't handle peacetime over to his side. And it works for simple minded bots like Tidal Wave, and trigger happy nutters like Cyclonus. But not Demolishor, who is loyal to Megatron, but sees the modern era as pretty good. And then Megatron comes back six episodes in, and promptly removes Scorponok from power (In what is, even with Energons problematic animation style, a damn fine asskicking to watch.) Demolishors loyalty to Megatron wins out, but his loyalties are still tested several times. But then the fall really begins. Starscream comes back as a brainwashed drone, then Megatron brainwashes him into loyalty. And that's pretty much it for Starscream this show. He just serves as Megs attack dog for the next 45 eps. Then Cylonus and Tidal Wave get reformatted into Snow Cat and Mirage, both of which do nothing from that point on besides comic relief. And then Demolishors body is destroyed in a heroic sacrifice to save Megatron, then Megatron brings him back... as a dumb truck that acts like an ape and does nothing but comic relief from that point on. (You may be noticing a trend). War moves to Cybertron, everyone forgets about Earth. Then some other planets are made from all the energon and everyone forgets about Cybertron. Then some of those planets are eaten, and Unicron is revived! And then beaten an episode later. With about 22 episodes left in the season. So they rehash the steal energon to revive Unicron plot again! There are good plot elements in the later season, but the show was REALLY bad at introducing an idea, then forgetting about it. Alpha Q and Scorponok had their own agendas and schemes! Well, that episode wasn't even translated. Shockblast was a psycho who killed Wing Daggers partner! Wing Saber beat him up once, then was Primes pants and arms for the rest of the show, or at least until Omega took his place. Shockblast was then killed trying to take control of Unicrons body, which at least made sense for the character. Rodimus led another faction of Autobots that don't agree with how Prime does things and will resolve this their own way! Oh, wait, they're now loyal to Prime and background characters. Ironhide is the Hot Shot of this season... And fuck he's annoying. Speaking of annoying, Kicker. Just... GOD. No human character in all the franchise deserves scorn more than this fucknugget. And yes, I am including the residents of Carbombya and the live-action movies in that statement. Just an always rude, always angry little bitch, who is getting in the way and sucking up screentime from all the more interesting characters, human and bot alike. What about the mini-cons? Surely they have a role right? Nah, a few are there for the first few episodes, and the Energon Saber Team get wielded by Kicker like a bad Cloud Strife knockoff. ... Sorry, got a little carried away there. But yes. So much potential, wasted.
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Post by triumshockwave on Feb 17, 2022 23:50:39 GMT -5
OK, yeah. The “dude gets reformatted then becomes pointless” thing I do remember from Energon. Some of this I think is just how Japan always does Transformers, where the Autobots are stoic and formal, and the Decepticons are blithering idiots. Japan basically invented dynamic, nuanced villains in children’s animation, so why Transformers has to be like this is beyond me.
Something else I was thinking about was how when we were at BotCon in 2002, the Armada toys were juuuuuust starting to show up, so not everybody had even seen them yet, and we’d all gather around whoever had one to see what it was like. And I think there was a contest where Hasbro gave away a Superpants Prime? Man, the one time in your life you win something, and it’s that fuckin thing.
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Post by iacon45 on Feb 18, 2022 20:55:36 GMT -5
And Cybertron is just fine. I felt that way then and still do. Cybertron was easily my favorite of the entire trilogy in both TV series and toys. I do remember a discussion I think back on TFD where some of us reasoned that Cybertron actually made a better sequel to Armada than Energon ever did. And there was some compelling points that made Armada->Cybertron without Energon pretty feasible. The thread is long gone and it's been a while since I saw the end of Armada and beginning of Cybertron, but I remember a couple of points that were made. First was how it could be explained that Unicron disappearing at the end of Armada could have led to the creation of the black hole in Cybertron. I think another point was Megatron...Galvatron...being absorbed by Unicron at the end of Armada, without the events in Energon, could have a better lead in to explaining how Megatron returned in Cybertron with the whole "Armor of Unicron".
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