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Post by triumshockwave on May 9, 2019 19:57:58 GMT -5
So... it looks great. Can't deny that. But it's a real time action RPG. FFXV was an action RPG, and I like XV. I actually want to play it again since I played it at launch and a lot has changed, not to mention DLC. I'd have had no problem if FFXVI was an action RPG.
But VII isn't an action RPG. VII was possibly the epitome of turn based RPGs, a more strategy focused experience. What I wanted, and what most people I think wanted, was FFVII with better visuals. This is a totally different game with the same(?) plot. And while that may be a good game, it's not FFVII. Just... gah. Why. Why when you know it's going to disappoint people? If you didn't want to do a remake of FFVII, if you wanted to do something else, why not just do something else?
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Post by Greatshot on May 9, 2019 22:23:08 GMT -5
I think it looks fucking amazing and actually feels like it captured the spirit of the original game, which was FAR more of a concern for me than the mechanics of how I beat up Shinra lackies and planetary guardian Weapons.
Turn based RPGs don't pull in the audiences they used to, and even back then FF7 was an outlier sales numbers-wise, as the series suffered diminishing returns with each installment until a spike with X (which still fell short of VII, even with a larger install base). As a triple A game with a triple A budget, it's a much safer and more realistic choice for them to go ARPG, and as you said, XV was good - so good it was the best selling and best received FF game in many years, and the remake of XII (which also is somewhat of an ARPG, though it's closer to a single player MMO really) also did well. I don't blame them a bit for catering to the gaming public at large who routinely criticize that old style of gameplay and not the people who actually remember playing the original game.
Remember, the game is 22 years old. An entire generation of gamers has literally grown up since then and most of them only know it by reputation as the original hasn't exactly aged gracefully.
I'm still super on board, and I figure the game us fanboys want will come eventually - Squeenix has already confirmed this is coming to PC, which means someone far smarter than I am will eventually crack it, rip the assets, and make a patch for the original game out of them.
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Post by Optimal Megatron on May 10, 2019 8:10:23 GMT -5
I just want someone to be assigned as a "production assistant" to Nomura, whose sole job is to put a gun to his head on a semi-regular basis so he doesn't make this Kingdom Hearts 3 Development: The Sequel.
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Post by Greatshot on May 10, 2019 11:22:56 GMT -5
I just want someone to be assigned as a "production assistant" to Nomura, whose sole job is to put a gun to his head on a semi-regular basis so he doesn't make this Kingdom Hearts 3 Development: The Sequel. Truth.
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Post by triumshockwave on May 10, 2019 17:56:31 GMT -5
I suppose it depends on the audience. There are plenty of JRPG franchises still thoroughly embedded in turn-based gameplay. Atelier, Neptunia, Dragon Quest, Fire Emblem, etc, etc. The rereleases of FFVII and IX are doing really well on the Switch too. It's mostly the mainstream Western audience that views it as old. But, if they want XV levels of mass market mega-smash hit, I guess that's the direction they have to go.
I'll most likely play it. How can I not. It's just not what I hoped for.
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Post by Greatshot on May 10, 2019 22:34:33 GMT -5
Oh yeah, I still very much enjoy those kinds of games myself, but numbers-wise, they just don't sell anywhere near as well. Persona 5 was considered a HUGE success for a traditional JRPG and it "only" sold 3 million copies, which when you put it up against the big AAA games, just... isn't very much. For the amount of money Squeenix is putting into (and expecting from) FF7RM it's just not tenable. Would I prefer it to just be the original game but far prettier? Probably. But I like good ARPGs so i'm keeping an open mind. And who knows, if it does end up making a shitload of money, I wouldn't put it past them to put out a DLC "classic mode", honestly.
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Post by Matrix Dragon on May 11, 2019 7:27:54 GMT -5
People have looked into the old 'turn based doesn't sell' claim. And it turns out that like a lot of genres, there's actually next to no solid evidence of it. CEOs in particular constantly claim it, but an important thing to remember about video game publisher CEOs is that they're fucking idiots. These are people who proclaim that a game is a failure for 'only' selling five million copies in a week, who microtransaction fuck every game 'service' to death, and torture their staff with 100 hour work weeks and neglect to pay them for that overtime, while giving themselves multi million dollar bonuses.
Turn based games sell great for the amount of money being put into their development. It's just that publishers are morons. This could have been turn based and there wouldn't have been a problem, but Square-Enix has had a hard on for REVOLUTIONARY COMBAT SYSTEMS for over a decade.
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Post by Greatshot on May 11, 2019 15:53:46 GMT -5
The data literally supports the claim though. Persona 5 is the most successful turn based RPG in years, and it sold slightly more than half of what of what FFXV did (5 mil vs 9 mil). Octopath Traveller was considered a surprise breakout hit, "only" 1 million copies. Ni No Kuni, again, considered a huge success for the genre, as a 2 game franchise, less than 3 million combined.
By comparison, Kingdoms of Amalur, a (surprisingly good) no-name ARPG that was such a trainwreck it torpedoed the company so bad the state of Rhode Island sued over it and the company went under like 6 months after it's launch, STILL sold over a million copies. Something like RDR2 sold 23(!) million copies. CoD games routinely hit 10 mill plus. Even Smash and Spiderman, which are exclusive to single consoles, pushed 9 million each.
Hell, even in their heyday they were rarely at the top of the sales charts. FFVI ("III" technically, in the US at this point), was the best selling SNES RPG, and it is 11th place on the all time chart for that system. Granted, some of that is attributed to pack in games back then (IE, the massive numbers for Super Mario World), but SFII for example doubled that, and was never a pack in at any point. FFVII (original) is the only outlier to this trend, interestingly enough, and there's a real case for that being more that the game was such a technical tour de force display of the potential of a 32-bit CD-ROM based console than being a JRPG. That's backed up by the aforementioned huge drop off in subsequent PS1 FF games. IX sold half of what VII did, to a far larger install base. Aside from the 3 PS era Final Fantasy games, the next best selling JRPG beyond those two was the *magnificent* Dragon Quest VII, which only sold a mere 4 million copies. At the height of the genre's golden age.
For the massive amount of resources being dumped into making a remake of FFVII (there's no way this game isn't quite expensive, dev wise), it's not financially viable. Wish it was, would much prefer it to just be the original game but super pretty, but the mass gaming public isn't interested in those games.
And this is coming from someone who, at 13, willingly forfeited my birthday and xmas presents on the agreement my mom would shell out the $99.99 retail price (in 1994 dollars) for Phantasy Star IV on launch day. No one wants classic JRPGs that aren't grossass Waifu-Loli sims again more than me, but they just do not match the sales figures of action games. I feel catering this game solely to those still hoping to see to a fairly flawed (I love FFVII but it's far from a perfect game) 20+ year old title being word for word remade, would be a critical and financial mistake, especially since once it fails, Squeenix can write off any sort of return to the type of glory they used to have using it as their defense. I'll take a spirtual remake and get the gameplay fix from stuff like Setsuna and Octopath happily.
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Post by Greatshot on Jun 15, 2019 16:42:59 GMT -5
So Ars Technica has a pretty in-depth article of how the combat mechanics work. FF7 hands onReads like a fairly good compromise between modernization/real time and throwing a bone to the classic ATB system. Actually sounds similiar in concept to V.A.T.S. to me, which for all of Bethesda fucking up Fallout, was a pretty good way of bringing the original gameplay into the FPS engine.
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Post by triumshockwave on Jun 15, 2019 21:42:02 GMT -5
I heard something about this coming on two discs, which is basically unprecedented in the age of games coming on Blu Ray. And this only covers up until leaving Midgar? God damn, they must be adding a lot of content.
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