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Post by Gojitron on Feb 1, 2018 21:34:49 GMT -5
Hopefully a topic with a little meat on it for discussion.... Everyone knows Funko Pop! (or "Funko's" as they're called by the unwashed heathens). They've become the most pervasive toy line in recent memory, being sold everywhere, including exclusives at every store imaginable including Wal-Mart, Target, Walgreens, Hot Topic, Kohl's, FYE, Toys R Us and 7-Eleven. I know a lot of collectors pass them by, but I like them. They remind me of my youth when Mego gave me Batman, Green Arrow, Mr. Spock, General Ursus, the Falcon and so may more in the same size and style. These days I can line up Thor, Rick Grimes, Leonardo, Daenerys Targaryen, Darkwing Duck and Mr. Poopy Butthole all on the same shelf and they all go together. Plus, I can easily take a dozen at a time to cons to get autographs. I've seen a lot of comparisons to Beanie Babies which I don't think is applicable. If Beanie Babies had the licenses to over 200 movies, shows, comics and video games they might still be around. Since the Pop! line has become a mass market phenomenon, Funko has doubled down every year, creating multiple toy lines to keep their licenses fresh. Mystery Minis, Dorbz, Reaction, Hikari, Rock Candy, Vnyl, Fabrikations....Funko has produced literally millions of toys in less than a decade. I enjoy watching videos from a Youtube channel called Retroblasting. Mike and Melinda are a couple from Georgia who do reviews, critiques and retrospectives on mostly 80's toys, movies and cartoons. Mike, who greatly prefers vintage over modern, was asked about what he thought of Pop! and Mighty Muggs, Hasbro's feeble attempt to compete with Funko every few years. He did a video declaring his opinion, and....he hates them. Passionately. He thinks they're worthless, have no artistry, no soul, and are just marketing for the sake of marketing. It was pretty much a rant video, but something he said toward the end of it struck me....one of the reasons that other toy companies are raising their prices due to the cost of plastic is because of companies like Funko eating up all the plastic for their products. Back at the old Den I did an inflation comparison a few years ago, and prices have gone up more since then, with some stores charging almost $17 for a Deluxe now, and the sizes of toys continue to shrink. We've also seen other lines inflate, like $20 for a Marvel Legends, $10 for more basic action figures, etc. So, does Mike from Retroblasting hve a point? Do you thin the influx of cheaper, Funko type products have had an effect on toy prices? Or.... Years ago, the mantra for fans complaining about toys was "but they're made for kids, not you". That's not the case any more. Sure, there are still toys made for kids, like Rescue Bots, Imaginext and those $10 "Titan" type figures that all the companies are doing now, cheaper toys with less detail and articulation, but Transformers Generations, Marvel Legends, DC Universe, the Power Ranger reissues, those are all for us. Adults with expendable income and the desire to collect. So are the price increases about the rising cost of production, or are the costs going up because the toy companies know that collectors will accept them to get their plastic fix? Discuss.
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Post by SporkBot on Feb 2, 2018 10:40:59 GMT -5
First, let me start with this: When the Funko POPs first came out, I figured they were not for me. I wasn't really interested in getting them, but I could see how others would be; they're small, fairly inexpensive, have a cuteness factor, and possess a simplicity that probably makes them inexpensive to produce (just my guess). The first one I got was Peter Griffin from my sister (it was apparently between that or Picard, and somehow my brother-in-law figured Family Guy was still my jam). Because it was a gift, I was fine with it, even if I don't care for the show anymore.
However, Steven Universe POPs came out, and...well, on my DVD cabinet I have the main cast, Lion, Connie (who falls down almost all the time when I open/close the doors) and Lapis Lazuli. That'll probably be about it, unless they have interesting Fusions down the line, or Connie with Rose's Sword or something. I also got Mr. Freeze figure when I got that Batman TAS collector's box last year, and on my birthday, picked up TAS Batgirl and Catwoman. Barring any Cassie Cain (Batgirl/Black Bat/Wanderer) figures, I might be done. If I buy others, it more likely might be if they're one of those exclusives I think I can sell on eBay (but when I buy something just for that, it hardly ever becomes fruitful). Though I have in the past been tempted by Space Ghost and Green Ranger (MMPR).
As for Mike's comments...I suppose it's possible that Funko is "plastic hoarding" and thus driving up the price for other manufacturers. While the POPs themselves have are very lightweight, there's just SO MANY of them. At least one version of a character for every one of their many licenses, and having more characters to go. Like if one guy says he'll use a cup of water, and another guy says he'll use many drops of water, but HIS drops accumulate to 2 cups or over. And if there's a finite amount of water available, that could be problematic for others.
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Post by Deinonychus on Feb 2, 2018 14:45:55 GMT -5
but something he said toward the end of it struck me....one of the reasons that other toy companies are raising their prices due to the cost of plastic is because of companies like Funko eating up all the plastic for their products. Um...what? From what I can tell, Funko Pops are made from vinyl. The same polyvinyl chloride used in a billion other goddamn items all over the world. unless there's some special formulation of "Toy Grade PVC" that only one company in the United States produces, this is complete and utter horse-feathers. As for the POPs themselves, I find that I more enjoy looking at them in stores and online than actually owning them. I tried collecting a little bit a couple of years ago by only going in on the Arrowverse characters, but as soon as a few super-expensive exclusives began appearing, I got out of that rather quickly. So, now I pretty much just get stuff in ones or twos. I've got a good collection of Xenomorphs, Godzilla, Voltron, Bob Ross, Brett Burns (San Jose Shark), and Tom Servo & Crow. I'm trying really hard to resist the James Bond POPs...but otherwise I do a good job resisting buying them and having any character collecting needs fulfilled by authentic or filthy unlicensed Chinese Minifigs. Personally I enjoy Funko's other offerings more. All the little blind box figures and Pint-Size Heroes are more my speed right now. They're a few bucks each and make for great photos with Little Deino. My Wife though, she goes all-in on POPs for one theme or another. Labyrinth, Lord of the Rings, Strawberry Shortcake, and Fraggle Rock are all in full effect in her office at home. That's another great thing about POPs, there's something for everyone and it's not just another male nerd collectable.
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Post by iacon45 on Feb 2, 2018 16:46:14 GMT -5
I kind of see Pops! more like Hot Wheels than Beanie Babies. You have all these different versions on shelves just like all the different $1 Hot Wheels (both in house and licensed models) just like Funko Pops! They also have the chase "Treasure Hunt" variants in Hot Wheels just like Funko Pops! have their own "chase" variants too. They also both have their own store exclusive lines and even different styles and lines going beyond the normal line (like $5+ deluxe and larger scale vehicles for Hot Wheels, and larger scale figures and vehicle type figures for Pops!). Only thing is I have not heard about are knock out drag out fights over Pops and that, as far as I know, Pops collectors don't have a stigma about them like Hot Wheels collectors do. Point is though, and I might be talking out my backside here, but $1 Hot Wheels have not caused other lines of toy cars to increase in price over the years, that I know of, so I don't know if I could say the same thing about Pops making other companies increase the MSRP of their various action figure lines. I don't doubt that plastic prices are ever increasing (just like the price of oil is going up now as well) but I just figure it's more a combination of it and other areas like engineering costs, paints, overhead, and employees that are causing prices to go up instead of just one single aspect. Going back to Pops though, I am not a regular collector. But it does amaze me at all the various figures available at any given time and I don't see the fad going away any time soon like the Beanie Baby. But while I am not a regular collector, I admit...I do have one single Pop figure though: Attachments:
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Post by Gojitron on Feb 2, 2018 17:09:15 GMT -5
What, no Fett or Venom? And the Jurassic Park raptor is a perfect playmate for little Deino.
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Post by iacon45 on Feb 2, 2018 18:01:14 GMT -5
My last post, I mentioned about Pops having Chase variants. Out of curiosity, has anyone actually found a Chase variant out in the wild? I came across a Five Nights at Freddy's chase a few weeks ago at Wal-Mart right after they had put out a box. It's the first and only Chase Pop I have seen. I didn't buy it and found out later that it's probably one of the easiest chases to find out there. But it amazes me how much some of these other chases, and even exclusives, can demand on the second market.
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Post by machsabre on Feb 2, 2018 23:10:07 GMT -5
Yeah, here's what I know. It's not like there's a limited supply of plastic in the world and Funko is not hogging it all. The thing is... Polyvinyl is probably the cheapest of all the plastics to produce... Though at one time, it was the exact opposite. Vinyl can be produced from crude oil, that DOESN'T need to be petroleum. (Corn oil works awesomely. In fact, I believe that's what Funko uses.) There's pros and cons to it all. The pros is that it's got excellent durability, easy to use, resistance to UV degradation, good rigidity, and low flammability. However, it's not considered environmentally friendly in most applications, lower thermal stability (shatters easily in near freezing weather), can be susceptible to VOCs, and does not score and fold well. (Which makes it somewhat hard to make posable toys out of.) A lot of the Playskool toys are made from this, and it's one of the reasons that they're not all super posable. (But that doesn't mean they CAN'T be. Mattel has been looking into polyvinyl compounds, and I believe the DC Superhero Girl figures are made from them.) However most companies are still set up for the traditional plastic materials... So I don't see Generations toys switching anytime soon.
That said, I thought the same thing about the Funko Pops for a long time, that I didn't give a shit about them and they're not for me...
Except on my shelf, I have Overwatch's Lucio, Agent Carter, K2-SO, BB-8, Rey, Donatello, Ms. Marvel and Gwenpool staring at me. SO obviously that feeling didn't last long.
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Post by Valo Sweet 666 on Feb 3, 2018 0:10:17 GMT -5
I resisted them as long as I could, but ended up jumping in.
I am a huge player and fan of Overwatch, and the toy merch was pretty much non existent other than some recent neandriods. So I wanted a figure of every character, and this seems to be the easiest way for me to do it. One thing I have avoided is the exclusive ones, I really just want one of each character.
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Post by iacon45 on Feb 16, 2018 12:08:24 GMT -5
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Post by triumshockwave on Feb 19, 2018 2:21:11 GMT -5
Besides PVC, toys and models are also made from ABS and polystyrene. They all serve different purposes based around cost, resilience and mold performance. For example, most Bandai model kits are made from PS. It takes fine detail well and is easy for the customer to sand/cut/etc with precision, but is on the brittle side so it can be fragile. Those qualities are fine for a model kit where it's more about the final product looking sharp than standing up to play. On larger kits with internal frames, the frame may be made of ABS. The ABS holds up better as the structural parts of a larger, heavier kit, and since the frame is mostly hidden it's OK if the detail isn't quite as sharp.
PVC continues much the same trend, being soft and almost rubbery (a good quality for toys aimed at toddlers), but doesn't take the kind of precise shapes needed for something aimed at a collector or even an older child. Rarely you may see it on a Bandai model kit for a specific reason, and generally the modelers hate it because you can't really clean up the gate marks or flash. The rubbery nature makes it impossible to sand, and even trying to make a precise cut is a pain in the ass.
Long story short, the idea they're using up all the plastic is ludicrous. It's not like high tech components where only a few places can make them well, and there's more than one kind. Besides, if there's anybody out there causing a plastic shortage, it's Bandai. Jesus H Christ they pump out a lot of shit, yet the price of their model kits at least is pretty static. A kit released in 1998 for 1,200 yen still costs 1,200 yen when they reprint it. Fully finished figures is harder to say because they don't tend to re-release the same ones the way they reprint model kits, but I feel like it's pretty same. They've always overpriced the collectors' lines, and continue to do so. Toys for kids and gashapons are still fairly reasonable for what you get.
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