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Post by Optimal Megatron on Apr 13, 2019 16:22:39 GMT -5
The Luke thing, I think, didn't bug me because it felt to me like it was a moment of weakness. Not, like, even going to carry through with it, but that niggling thought going "if I cut this off, I could stop it before it gets worse", and then Ben wakes up, sees that, and reacts, and by then it doesn't matter that Luke was going to two seconds later go "No, what was I doing?" because Ben's already seen his teacher looking at him like he's going to kill him. And for that being out of character, I'd just note that in Return of the Jedi, Luke goes to the Death Star 2 with intent to redeem his father, but when Vader figures out that Leia's his sister, Luke goes fucking berserk and nearly murders the guy he's supposedly there to save right there. It's only when he takes off Vader's hand and sees the mirror reflection of what he could be that he snaps out of it. Luke's judgement isn't infallible, and he's got a track record of making that kind of mistake. Poe vs. Holdo was kinda dumb in that, yes, Poe is a loose cannon, but there's no reason to keep him cut out of the loop to teach him a lesson while in the midst of fleeing the First Order, to the point that he would've fallen in line instantly if he'd been in the know. It and the casino sequence being far too long for the payoff you got were probably the weak points of the film for me. Meanwhile, I still think Rian Johnson did more with Kylo Ren's character in an interesting way that both takes shots at how he's a Vader clone while playing with the fact that he isn't in far too many interesting ways. I'm just afraid of directorial waffling from JJ in this regard, like you said, in order to make Episode IX a more predictable box office success. I don't think we'll see a Palpatine clone since Yoda in TLJ shows Force Ghosts are more than capable of affecting the physical world, and I'd buy that a Sith Ghost like Palpatine would be even less concerned about non-intervention. But overall, I'll probably be at IX within a couple weeks of release, if not premier night because I don't go to premiers for MCU movies, let alone Star Wars.
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Post by Greatshot on Apr 13, 2019 18:14:22 GMT -5
My issue with Luke wasn't the initial decision - that I totally understood, for exactly as you described it. It was the disappearing for 25 years and being a total pansy about it that feels so out of character. OT Luke was literally willing to risk the entire rebellion and the fate of the galaxy on his belief that Vader could be redeemed. Lets remember that Anakin LITERALLY MURDERED A ROOM FULL OF CHILDREN. Him GIVING up on Ben after that moment of weakness and running away and NEVER trying to fix things, flat out claiming "he's totally lost to the Dark Side (when as far we we know, his worst crime is patricide, not mass kid butchering)" while the New Republic is assaulted by the FO that drives me nuts. His best friend dies, killed by his own son, Luke's nephew, and he doesn't give a shit. His sister, that same sister he was willing to cut down his own father to protect, is leading said Republic into battle and he's... too cranky to go help until the very last minute? The same sister and friend he was willing to risk everything for in Empire despite Yoda telling him he wasn't ready to face Vader yet. It just.. doesn't work for me.
I think that if instead of the whole 25 minutes of nonsense on Canto Blight* that's a waste of a quarter of the damn movie was "scenes showing why Luke became a bitter old hermit cut off from the Force instead of Obi 2.0 like we all expected him to be" I'd probably be fine with it, honestly. It just feels like too much of a leap in logic without knowing the WHY. Show me why Ben's irredeemable when Anakin wasn't. The takeaway I got from TLJ was that Rian Johnson had a particular story he was going to tell and he was going to fucking shove the pieces into those holes no matter what it mucked up.
*as a totally unreleated aside, I think it's complete bullshit that poor Kelly Tran is being assaulted by the idiotic man-baby fans on the internet for this. She was fine. Her portrayal of Rose is fine. Rose as a character is also fine. It's not her fault the script gives her a pointless sidequest.
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Post by Paladin on Apr 13, 2019 19:50:23 GMT -5
LOTTA folks complaining about Luke growing up to be a bitter old man after 30 years without a shred of irony...
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Post by Gojitron on Apr 14, 2019 7:23:25 GMT -5
I have a feeling they'll reveal that Palpatine was behind Kylo's corruption all along, maybe possessed by his Force ghost or something. Would be an easy way to explain away all of Kylo's evil and redeem him for the Rey pairing that fans have been hoping for.
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Post by Matrix Dragon on Apr 14, 2019 8:50:40 GMT -5
I have a feeling they'll reveal that Palpatine was behind Kylo's corruption all along, maybe possessed by his Force ghost or something. Would be an easy way to explain away all of Kylo's evil and redeem him for the Rey pairing that fans have been hoping for. Fucking hell, I hope not. That creepy incel fucker needs a sharp, sudden death.
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Post by iacon45 on Apr 14, 2019 10:43:23 GMT -5
My issue with Luke wasn't the initial decision - that I totally understood, for exactly as you described it. It was the disappearing for 25 years and being a total pansy about it that feels so out of character. OT Luke was literally willing to risk the entire rebellion and the fate of the galaxy on his belief that Vader could be redeemed. Lets remember that Anakin LITERALLY MURDERED A ROOM FULL OF CHILDREN. Him GIVING up on Ben after that moment of weakness and running away and NEVER trying to fix things, flat out claiming "he's totally lost to the Dark Side (when as far we we know, his worst crime is patricide, not mass kid butchering)" while the New Republic is assaulted by the FO that drives me nuts. His best friend dies, killed by his own son, Luke's nephew, and he doesn't give a shit. His sister, that same sister he was willing to cut down his own father to protect, is leading said Republic into battle and he's... too cranky to go help until the very last minute? The same sister and friend he was willing to risk everything for in Empire despite Yoda telling him he wasn't ready to face Vader yet. It just.. doesn't work for me. I think this nailed one of the main reasons why I have been turned off to Star Wars lately. Luke did so much during the original trilogy and then we finally get an episode VII and find out he's...hiding somewhere. At least Obi-Wan and Yoda going into hiding at the end of episode III made sense and had a purpose. One not to get killed since the whole empire would be looking for them but also planning on the future that one day Luke (or even Leia) would rise up and fight. But then we find out that Skywalker just left...just felt like such a 180 degree turn that it just kind of soured me to watching episode VIII. Completely honest, I loved some, emphasis on some, of the post ROTJ novels but movie-wise, I felt like ROTF ended just fine and really didn't need another movie. I was all for the prequels at the time because we had this story set up in the original trilogy and I wanted to see how we got to a New Hope but ROTF felt like a good stopping point and not every big blockbuster needs a sequel. But we are getting so much Star Wars now and supposedly after Episode XI, they are taking a break from the movies and I think that is for the best. Flooding the market is never a really good idea. But when they do another Star Wars movie, I'd like to see them do another movie that takes place years in the future where everyone in these movies would be gone and would not have such a bearing on the story. Also while I said I was getting numb to Star Wars, if Disney wanted to maybe wanted to release a special original trilogy set with the movies as they were pre-Special Edition, I don't think I'd say no to that.
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Post by Optimal Megatron on Apr 14, 2019 14:41:13 GMT -5
Honestly, the closest thing that got me to "Star Wars fatigue" had nothing to do with the content of the films. As said above, those have energized me every time I saw one.
For me, it's the increasing level of awareness of how terrible the fandom can be. The screaming about how TLJ is burning down the franchise and people going out of their way to harass actors and smear mud over production staff because it didn't fit what they wanted.
It's hearing every goddamn argument about how Rey is a Mary Sue but Luke fucking isn't despite the fact that they're both as Protagonist OP as anything (and Rey wasn't descended from the fallen Chosen One who was conceived by *immaculate conception*).
It's why I don't look at Star Wars news aside from the trailers because there seems to be this giant collection that are the representations of the worst stereotypes of geek culture that are getting far louder lately than they ever were before the films came out. There's twelve dozen sites about how Rian Johnson is fired and so is the producer who backed him, but citing nothing but other online critics complaining about how the movie needs to be rewritten or the entire franchise will prove as fragile as china teacups and shatter if you look at it wrong by the influences of "the SJWs".
I dunno. I've gone to every Star Wars movie the new set's put out, and I've enjoyed all of them (Solo, incidentally, is good not for being Han's backstory, but for being a great heist film. Also, while I'm hyped to see BIlly Dee Williams back for IX, I'd go see a Lando film starring Donald Glover in an instant. He has the style and panache down).
But fatigue is subjective. I mean, all I can say is that I'm having fun and hope that the next one actually hits closer to what you guys are looking for out of them.
But I think we can all agree the "re-cut TLJ to remove any female characters" fan project is the dumbest thing we've ever heard of.
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Post by Gojitron on Apr 14, 2019 15:43:07 GMT -5
But I think we can all agree the "re-cut TLJ to remove any female characters" fan project is the dumbest thing we've ever heard of. Hadn't heard about that, but not surprised. I did see that Kelly Marie Tran got huge applause and a standing 'O' when the Episode IX cast was introduced at Celebration, so that was cool.
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Post by Deinonychus on Apr 15, 2019 18:01:19 GMT -5
But I think we can all agree the "re-cut TLJ to remove any female characters" fan project is the dumbest thing we've ever heard of. Hadn't heard about that, but not surprised. I did see that Kelly Marie Tran got huge applause and a standing 'O' when the Episode IX cast was introduced at Celebration, so that was cool. That's cool, she's a good kid. Rose Tico, however, is still the worst Anyway, I've been trying not to think too hard about the teaser. Everything seems fine (hopefully this one is more TLJ than TFA) but I'm struggling to keep my expectations in check and remember that Palpatine will probably appear in the form of a hologram or force spirit and not come charging out of the Unknown Regions with a massive Dark Imperial Fleet under the command of Grand Admiral Thrawn. 'Cause that's what I really wanna see
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Post by machsabre on Apr 15, 2019 20:20:23 GMT -5
Hadn't heard about that, but not surprised. I did see that Kelly Marie Tran got huge applause and a standing 'O' when the Episode IX cast was introduced at Celebration, so that was cool. That's cool, she's a good kid. Rose Tico, however, is still the worst Anyway, I've been trying not to think too hard about the teaser. Everything seems fine (hopefully this one is more TLJ than TFA) but I'm struggling to keep my expectations in check and remember that Palpatine will probably appear in the form of a hologram or force spirit and not come charging out of the Unknown Regions with a massive Dark Imperial Fleet under the command of Grand Admiral Thrawn. 'Cause that's what I really wanna see If Thrawn shows up, that means Ezra shows up. And if Ezra shows up, that means Sabine and Ahsoka. And that's what I REALLY wanna see. But seriously, I'll take this. I won't complain. Because they said that the movies are going on a hiatus after this, and they'll focus on the TV shows... And honestly, that's for the best for now. (Actually if i had to say what I really want to see? I wanna see Episodes 1-6 redone in the style of those new Star Wars Adventures animated shorts.)
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